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Just a fun poll to see which Tweed is a Favorite?

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Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

This begs the question: how many of us have been lucky enough to play through all these vintage, rare (some rarer than others) amps and formulate an informed opinion?

I vote Bassman, but I've only had first-hand experience with a bassman, champ and pro. Frankly, they were all great to my ears, and I suspect that the right Deluxe could win my heart, too.

-n

MY favorite tweed is a Gibson Gibsonette! Well it's sort of tweed...

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Richard Johnson
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Playing an insturment doesn't make you a musician, listening does

Yeah, I'm thinking the same. I've never played the real deal of any of them. As a general principle, I'll say whatever has trem. (MBV changed my life.)

Bear

You and me both! But I'll take that and raise you one Spaceman 3. I saw Sonic Boom's Spectrum a few years back. At the end of the set, everyone left their guitars feeding back. Sonic went from amp to amp adjusting the trem settings for about 10 minutes. Stupid? Yes, but I was mesmerized.

-n

I voted for a Pro picking between a narrow panel Princeton, a Deluxe and a 5E5/5E5A clone I built out of a 1952 Gibson GA-75 carcass.

The 52 Gibson carcass had the original iron and an original P15N, but only 4 control knobs. I essentially built a narrow panel Pro without the Presence control and with cathode bias. The result is like my Deluxe except with a healthy dose of steroids. Early breakup, lots of compression and sag. Kinda like playing the saxophone instead of a guitar. Chimmy top end, but the bass does at times get farty.

The 52 wide panel Deluxe I bought for $200.00 from a local music store in Brooklyn that was used for just decoration. It was a basket case that had all the original parts, including filter caps, but the PS was blown, the Jenson P12R was also blown and tubes were missing. I ended up saving all the guts as a time capsule and replaced the board, PS tranny and speaker with a Jensen C12Q I had laying around. I built it into a later 5E3, but used octal 6SL7's for the preamps and the driver, and one channel I set up with grid leak bias for the pre-amp. The coolest ratty, snarly 26 pound amp.

I got rid of the Princeton because in comparison to the Deluxe and Pro it sounded boxy and small. BTW the wide panel Deluxe and the narrow panel Princeton were physically the same size

You guys might who voted for a Deluxe might consider changing your vote. "A PRO IS LIKE A DELUXE ON STEROIDS."

So the Bandmaster, Pro, and Super are identical or close to it, right? (At least in the 5Ex versions.) Hmm. Are the transformers the same? The Bandmaster does have the weird thing of having the three tens that are never going to be any of the usual impedence loads, so I wonder if a partial mismatch is part of the sound.

Beyond that, I guess it's down to the config's of 1-15", 2-10", or 3-10". (12's only came in the Deluxe and Twin, right? Or am I forgetting something?) I'd probably pick the 2 10" package as a one-hand-carry amp and one with more headroom than a Deluxe but quicker speaker breakup than a Basman (which some will run w/ only two speakers anyway). I'd shy from the 1-15" because I haven't seen anyone go very wild about currently available speakers in that size.

Bear

It has some of the gumption of the Bassman, but 3x10s seems to sweeten it a bit.

The small tweeds are just to loose and floppy for me.

The tremolux has some magic, but Bassman, Pro and Bandmaster are closer to my ideal.

P.

Paul, does your preference fall along lines of cathode biased vs. fixed bias?

Bear

It's really a difficult question to answer. As far as Fender Tweeds go, it's definitely fixed bias for me, but remember an amp must be taken as a package. The cathode biased fenders tended to be earlier amps, with different PIs, rectification and tone stacks.

As far as newer amps go, I don't really look at bias as a deciding factor. It's like the recent fascination with "Class A". I heard so much misinformation and misunderstanding on that one it was hard to keep a straight face sometimes.

These same old wives tales repeated without understanding also brought us brass sustain blocks, 14 lb. "The Strats" (with Rube Goldberg switching), effects pedals with 12AX7s running on 12 volts, etc.

I have a couple of very toneful adjustable fixed bias amps (68 Princeton Reverb, 67 Bassman), and a couple of very toneful cathode biased amps (64 Alamo Paragon, Dr Z m@z 38 Sr). I've owned and/or played just about every classic design. Each has characteristics I like.

I hear guys now talk about negative feedback (apparently bad), tube rectification (apparently good), alnico speakers (nothing else will do). Of course I wouldn't be able to hear them back when I was cranking a Marshall stack (none of those things, but what a tone).

So which scheme do I like??

Yes.

P.

Yeah, absolutely no magic bullets. The human mind likes a categorical approach. I hear you say you don't like the small tweeds, my mind goess to look at what is a universal distinguisher. The more basic tone stacks could as easily be a factor, one supposes.

Negative feedback is a funny one - everyone speaks of the evil, but the two paradigm guitar amps, the blackface Fender and the Marshall Super Lead, are both amps using negative feedback (along w/ legion others). I remember that Tony Bruno had some updated take on an AC-30 out and it had a presence control - which means negative feedback. Guitar Player seemed to think it sounded like an AC-30 anyway.

Bear

I can testify that Tony Bruno's early Underground 30s are right up there with the most magical amps ever.

I used to know Tony, he serviced and built amps in his basement in Queens, NY. He was a personal acquaintance and he took care of my eqpt.

We had a falling out because I kept asking him for a U30, but the amps were just starting to take off, and he put me off to take care of more "important" people--trying to get his amps out there and seen. We never talked about money, and I think maybe he thought I was looking for a disount as well (I wasn't--at the time a 2x12 U30 was about $1800, steep but not ridiculous). Tony is a funny bird and I took great offense at his attitude.

Some of his amps, notably the U30, Tweedy Pie and Cowtipper are quite nice, if pricey.

P.

I don't know how to vote (and I'm 27...), and I don't know how most of these amps sound and play, but here's my vote:

The 5F1 Champ. Assuming it's hotrodded with bypass caps on all cathodes, -FB removed (or on a switch - play loud AND clean-ish), an MV added and maybe raise the value to 1M-A in parallel with 1M to ground, effectively doubling the grid reference resistance to ground. Not so good for the tubes, very good for the sound.

Also, playing it through a 12" helps! I built a clone, so no qualms about butchering the cab. I wouldn't like it with an 8". BTW this is the only amp through which I really love a Tele.

Next up will be a Ceri@tone 5E3, see what that sounds like. Very crunchy no doubt but maybe not enough headroom. Well, I could experiment with NFB... which does have it's uses. Don't believe the hype. Don't believe ANY hype.

Clapton playing a Twin clone sounds amazing. I remember a gig at Buckingham Palace (I have the DVD) where he plays Layla (surprise!). At first, I thought his tone sucked. Then I found out that *his* tone was awesome, but the session guitarist's (playing through a Messy Booger) tone sucked. Such a shame that the Twin is waaaay too loud!

So, for good tone at useable volume: 5F1 first, 5E3 next.

When I asked this question over on the Fender Forum I was surprised to get the most votes for the Bandmaster. The Super also got votes - same circuit - so there must be something special about the circuit.. I'm thinking of building one with a second, pentode channel.