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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:32 am 
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Holy Ghost
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Some of you may know, we have been using and promoting the excellent s2 transformers with our kits and built into all of our amps. We are currently testing two custom output transformers built specifically for us by Heyboer Transformers*. One was a Radio Spares Clone and the other was the 'standard 18 Watt construction, with changes. We received the two models a week ago.

We recently started to comparison test the three brand new OTs. All three were mounted on a board and sequentially plugged into the output circuit of an sIII. Our first impressions are very encouraging.

Right off the bat, the Radio Spares Clone has a broader frequency response, especially in the high end. The clone exhibited clean high ends with no extra ‘fur’ on the high notes. This provided a full, rich complex and smooth tone. First impressions were that with the full but not overly hyped bass and clearer highs than all samples. It was smoother and slightly more compressed.

The other transformer was similar in construction to several 18 watt transformers you can purchase from various dealers. Again, as with the clone, this sample exhibited clean high ends with no extra ‘fur’ on the high notes. There seemed to be slightly less bass response than the s2. First impressions were equal to the s2 standard we have been using but with a clean high end and marginally less bass. The clean high end is inherent to the transformer.

We expect it will take some time to ‘burn in’ all of them as all 3 test samples are brand new. That may result in some smoothing of tone – we’ll have to see. Another week perhaps less.

Lawrence and I plan to do a QA test on all 3, and provide comparison sound clips for people to 'vote' for their favorite – and getting feedback on it. That will be interesting. We'll do that on our forum soon.



Radio Spares Clone
-----------------------------------
This output transformer is wound the same as the original Radio Spares transformer used in the early Marshall 18 watt amplifiers. Because the M-6 grade today is a better quality than early 60's M-6, we decided to use M-27, or lower grade lamination material. This was done to capture the tone of the original 18 watt amplifier.

The clone has more interleaves /splits than other 18 watt transformers and this is probably what gives it the extended frequency response. The original RS deluxe was closer to the hi fi end for an output transformer. The clone is very close to the original 18 watt in construction electrically, mechanically and has a stand-up channel mount.

Our objective was primarily to get a Radio Spares Deluxe Clone that was versatile, vintage sounding and able to be use it in many amps with variations. So in addition, to the 8K primary designed for two EL84/6BQ5, we took the Ultra linear taps from the original design and changed the ratio ever-so-slightly to provide 5K taps for a 6V6 concept 18 watt amp. With this, conversion of an sIII to a 6V6 model would be simplified. In fact, the transformer could be used strictly for a 6V6 based vintage amp! The primary impedance for the clone is : 4k - 2.5K - 0 - 2.5K - 4K from center or 8K center tap on the outside and 5K center tap on inside leads.

Specifications

Construction
------------
All transformers tested were stand-up channel mount, direct replacement

EDIT *** The outside diameter of the windings on the Heyboers were about 1/8" larger than the s2. ***


RS Clone output transformer
----------------------------- ---
18 Watts
EL84 OR 6V6 push-pull
Interleaved windings
8K Ohm primary impedance
5K Ohm primary impedance
4 Ohm secondary
8 Ohm secondary - separate from other 8 ohm secondary
8 Ohm secondary tie two 8 ohms in series to achieve 16 Ohm secondary
M-27 grade steel laminations
3.5" mounting centers
Stand-up form
Flying leads

18 watt RS Color Coding:
Primaries: Blue - blue = 8K , White - White = 5K, Red = Center tap
Secondaries:
Black - Green = 8 ohm
White = 0
Red = 4 ohm
Blue = 8 ohm

Note: The clone has two separate secondary windings. To get a 16 ohm impedance, connect two 8 ohms taps are connected in series i.e. tie green to white for 16 ohms across black to blue.



Other output transformer
-----------------------------------
This output transformer is similar to our standard s2 model, and to other 18 watt transformers available. It is an 18 watt capacity with 8K primary impedance 4-8-16 ohm in a stand-up channel mount.


18 Watts
EL84 push-pull
8K Ohm primary impedance
4 Ohm secondary
8 Ohm secondary
16 Ohm secondary
M-27 grade steel laminations
3.5" mounting centers
Stand-up form
Flying leads

18 watt Color Coding:
Primary
Brown - Start
Red - Center tap
Blue - Finish

Secondary
Black = 0 ohms
Yellow = 4 ohms
Green = 8 ohms
Orange = 16 ohms


Power Transformer
---------------------
To round out the set, we chsoe the PT -290. It features 120/240 volt primary for 60hz. Secondary is 290-0-290 HV, 6.3 V center tap heaters, 5/6.3v rectifier taps

Price for the sets are still to be determined.


*Heyboer Transformers has been designing and building the highest quality transformers for the electronics industry since 1958, serving customers worldwide. They have two West Michigan manufacturing locations.

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Last edited by coco on Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:39 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:59 pm 
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Holy Ghost
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Here's a picture of the jig we made with the transformers mounted and ready to test. The amp is hooked up to the jig by way of 3 wires coming out from the inside. Then we plug in whichever transformer we want to listen to.

This give us the advantage of being able to A-B-C every easilty and make valid comparisons.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:23 pm 
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That's a cool way to compare. I'm glad to see some additional transformers.

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Playing an insturment doesn't make you a musician, listening does


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:49 pm 
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Holy Ghost
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rjgtr wrote:
That's a cool way to compare. I'm glad to see some additional transformers.


Yeah, with the "Jig", it was really easy to detect even subtle differences. It only takes about 10 seconds to switch and the tubes don't even have time to cool off!

We are now trying to figure out the best way to get more player feedback on the sound quality.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:27 pm 
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coco wrote:
We are now trying to figure out the best way to get more player feedback on the sound quality.
Send them all to me Stephen, I'll let you know ;-)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:56 pm 
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Wouldn't that be nice! Any other volunteers??

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:54 am 
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Ill test a set for you ! , Oh well it was worth a try.

Anyway its nice to see that you really care what kind
of product your customers will get.

I am looking forward to the results & placing an order.

JOE

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:15 pm 
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Here are the comments on the Transformer testing we have done to date. This time we had Lawrence and Martin who has 35 years of Strats and Marshalls. Martin also makes a wicked JTM45.

It was a pleasure for me to listen to both of them play and in the end we had a clear, unanimous winner!

Method:
We used the transformer jig and with four (4) transformers to listen to.
Stephen changed the transformers while Martin and Lawrence played and we all listened - closely.
This was a blind test, only Stephen knew which one was plugged in at any given time and he recorded the results / comments. (see below) Amp controls were not changed once testing started.
Some results were recorded. Hope to post them if they come out OK.

It took a long time to settle in on the two best and then we focused on only them. It took some really serious picking and listening to get there but when we did it was - Wow - what a clear difference!!

All transformers sounded good, this was about picking the 'crème de la crème'!


Used:
> Guitars - Fender Stratocaster with rosewood neck; Historic Les Paul
> Speakers - Marshall 4 x12 cab loaded with 2 X Celestion Greenbacks and 2 x Tone Tubbies
> Amp - Trinity sIII with bridged inputs Power
> Transformer s2
> Pedals - none
> Trinity Amps transformer jig with 3 custom Heyboers and our standard s2


Conclusion (written independently by Martin Newall):

Of the 4 output trannies that were switched in and out of the jig there was one that stood head and shoulders above the rest. The resulting tone from this amp was without doubt THE quintessential early Marshall cranked tone to die for but with an added sweet, compressed, focused and beautiful complexity to the sound that will nail Stevie Ray, Mark Knopfler, Angus Young, Dave Gilmour, Vince Gill and beyond. (It's just a matter of guitar choice and where you set the vol pot...it's all there to explore!!)

Increasing pick pressure on the strings will accentuate the natural compression of the amp while still maintaining outstanding tone with no added fuzzies or buzzy artifacts riding on the signal. Rolling back on the vol pot will bring out the bell like qualities of the EL84 output tubes.


EDIT NOTE - the one that stood out was the Radio Spares Clone custom.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detailed Results and Comments:

Transformer - Radio Spares Clone custom made for Trinity Amps
> Full frequency response / bandwidth
> Nice midrange tone
> More Marshall sounding
> Responsive
> Does not 'fight' the player
> Transparent - clear - doesn’t add tone
> Could cut through a stage mix
> Natural compression
> Good sustain / clear
> Higher bandwidth
> Woody sounding with a Strat
> More musical
> Even sounding
> Easier to play - you hear what you're expecting to hear
> Quintessential Marshall sound
> Broader frequency response, especially in the high end.
> Clean high ends with no extra ‘fur’ on the high notes.
> Full, rich complex and smooth tone.
> Not overly emphasized bass and clear highs

Transformer - Heyboer 18 W Custom
> High frequency roll-off
> Not as responsive as RS Clone - not as "quick"
> Bassy
> Woofyness in bass
> Crunchy - but not sure "I like it"
> Not as clear as RS Clone
> Had to fight a bit to play this one.

Transformer - Heyboer 18W Custom for Trinity Amps
> Clean high ends with no extra ‘fur’ on the high notes.
> Bass is marginally less bold than the s2.

Transformer - s2 Amps 18 W
> Bit of an edge on the high end
> Extended Bass response
> Accentuated bass

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Last edited by coco on Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:15 am 
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coco wrote:
rjgtr wrote:
That's a cool way to compare. I'm glad to see some additional transformers.


Yeah, with the "Jig", it was really easy to detect even subtle differences. It only takes about 10 seconds to switch and the tubes don't even have time to cool off!

We are now trying to figure out the best way to get more player feedback on the sound quality.


Don't you realize what you've done!?!?!?

Pretty soon people are going to be requesting an over-sized chassis so that they can have multiple, switchable OTs mounted...

I can see it now...

there'll be three models. an sIII-1, an sIII-2 and an sIII-3....where the trailing number will indicate how many different OTs that can be switched in and out of the signal path...

;)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:41 am 
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Dont' think we haven't thought of that angle! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:49 pm 
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OK, I'm in. When can I get one? I'll be needing a chassis too.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:18 pm 
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Holy Ghost
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Trannies are being built now. PT & OT in sets. 2 weeks is the delivery for first lot. I'll post in the Want Ads when things are all firmed up but we're moving on them.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:22 pm 
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Power Transformer

Image

Output Transformer (notice the extra input wires for the 5K tap)

Image

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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:58 am 
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Hey Stephen,

That's some sharp lookin iron!

-F


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:49 am 
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Holy Ghost
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Thanks. Aslo got a few extra OTs available.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:12 pm 
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Ok, so I got one of the OTs and put it in my 1974x and then in a higher gain 6V6 amps I made. The 6V6 is actually a channel switcher with a clean channel and a TMB type high gain channel with a JCM800 - SLO style lead channel.

I like it a lot. For the 1974x it had a very smooth high end, but not attenuated. A lot of sparkle. The low end is smooth and punchy, just a touch clearer too.

I'm still testing it in the 6V6 and letting it break in, but it sounds great here too. I really gets the proportion of highs to lows of a bigger amp, like a 50 watter. The low end doesn't get flabby like in a lot of small amps.

So far this is a great sounding transformer and more than worth getting for it's good tone.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:05 pm 
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rjgtr,

thanks for the input. we're waiting for some more feedback from down under and hopefully from the left coast.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:51 am 
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I've really been enjoying my 6V6 amp with this transformer. It really solves the need for a transformer with a tight low end. Every time I play the 6V6 amp it just sounds great. And it sounded great before, but it is even better now.

I'm going to build myself a mini stack based on 2 1x12 cabinets with an 18 watt lite for the amp. I'm thinking an sIII TMB lite using Trinity transformers.

Good job!

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Playing an insturment doesn't make you a musician, listening does


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:26 am 
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I really like the information you share. Thanks to that, I know many more interesting and useful things. tetris unblocked


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