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 Post subject: Tramp in the Chapel
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:54 pm 
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I took the Tramp to the Chapel last night. The chapel is brent's studio built in an old church. You've never seen so much gear in one place.


Sly-Fi Chapel

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The objective was to get a few hours of playing time in and get Brent's golden ears and magic hands on it. He can do things to amps you dont want to know about!


Brent

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We had two players this time, Rob Waite once again and Mark DaSilva who owns Strumm Music http://www.strummusic.ca in Picton, Ontario.

Mark

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I learned a lot more about the tramp in this session. For example, you can get all the sounds you want (Clean pickin' to nicely OD) (Strat, Tele, PRS, Les Paul) in just the Tweed mode [design midrange settings] if you use all the controls, VRM and the Fat / Thin switch, together. If you need over the top OD, a pedal is the big ticket here. And we tried them all!

I'm not going to say a lot more until Brent has had time to post his thoughts but he did record clips.

I will, however, say thanks to Brent and the Quinte West Boys.

Look for Brent's review soon!

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Last edited by coco on Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:17 am 
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That was fun! The Tramp is a COOL amp. :) Clips to come...

I'd like to thank Mark and Rob too - it's a lot easier to dig into the sonics of an amp when two great players have the guitars in their hands!! 8)

The Tramp is AMAZING. IMO it's bulletproof. Sounds phenomenal, and works with every guitar we could throw at it, every cab we plugged into, and every pedal we tried! You folks are going to love it! :D

In a word - CREAMY... in two words - SMOOTH and CREAMY! Overall it's a little darker and thicker than other Trinity designs, doesn't have the same sort of top end focus that say the TC15 or Triwatt have. The Tramp has a welcome warmth, almost vintage voice but with a little more solidity and clarity...

The controls... in Tweed mode, the gain control is usable through it's entire travel - gorgeous cleans around 5/6 on the dial, slight breakup around 7/8, and an amazing humming drive at 9/10. EVERYTHING I need in the spectrum from clean to dirty is right here. Pulling the gain knob out engages 'Tude mode. Anyone that knows me would acknowledge that I LIVE for the dirty region of any amp and the very fact it was called 'Tude excited me even more!! But the truth of the matter is, that I don't think there was anything happening in 'Tude mode that the amp needs. The gain travel was good up until about 7... past 7 it just got out of control and farted out in the bottom end. Interestingly, switching between 'Tude on 7 to Tweed on 10, the tones were about equally gainy!! The 'Tude tone was a little more "complex", but only subtly so, and frankly it didn't "feel" as good to me. At this point we experimented with leaving it in Tweed mode and throwing pedals into the mix - INFINITELY more satisfying than anything we were able to get with 'Tude and with the right pedal, WAY more gain. :) So, I suggested to Stephen that 'Tude could be removed from the circuit without sacrificing any flexibility OR tone...

Thin/Fat switch is really effective. Thin is lean, clean and tight, Fat REALLY fattens things up and dumps a little more gain into the circuit. I also loved the fact that Thin/Fat both work with ANY guitar - it wasn't a situation where you have to use Thin with a Les Paul because Fat is too fat, or you have to use Fat with a Tele because Thin is too strident. You get two different and useful options with every guitar you plug in...

Bass and treble work as advertised and sound great through their entire travel. There's also a Master Volume and the VRM Volume. VRM is GREAT - you can have raging tone at volumes that guys that played in loud bands in the 70's won't be able to hear!!! But here's where it get interesting - all 4 controls do what you'd expect them to, but they also seem to act as interactive tone controls. Specifically the bass control seems to work well in conjunction with the MV, and the treble seems to work in tandem with the VRM. What do mean Brent??!!?? :? I noticed that boosting the MV seems to also bring up the bottom end of the tone, and that boosting the VRM seems to add top end to the tone. So, I started to experiment with boosting the bass while I turned down the MV and vice versa. I also experimented with boosting the treble while turning down the VRM and vice versa. This IMO is the COOLEST part of the amp!! :!: It's cool because as you work these tandem controls in opposite directions what happens is that the treble/middle/bass relationships in the tone don't change, but the tonal quality itself changes!! This is VERY cool. :lol: And in addition to that in the absence of a mid control, by messing with the relationships between the tandem controls you can effectively control the midrange!!! :o Anyway, in light of this, the temporary mid adjustment pot that Stephen had wired in became redundant so it was set back to "unity" and will be left off the amp... FWIW, my favourite tones lived with the gain somewhere 5 and 10, bass and treble between 3 and 7 and usually in the opposite direction from each other, and MV and VRM around 9, thin or fat...

The OT apparently can handle a bunch of different tube types, so we discussed the possibility of having a preset bias switch that would allow swapping between 6V6, KT66, and 6L6!!! Awesome!! We also ran the Tramp into every cab in my studio and it was phenomenal through all of them. My faves were my Mesa 412 with UK V30's, and my vintage Bassman 212 with CL80's. Given this we talked Stephen into the idea of having an "external speaker" jack on the back as well... We imagined someone using the Tramp at home for practicing with a 6V6 tube and the stock 10" speaker, but then when it was time to go out and play a gig, you could swap out for a 6L6, and drag along your favourite 212 for gig levels... Talk about versatile!!!

The 10" Jensen Stephen had in it sounded amazing - perfect actually. This is the speaker I'd want in there, or maybe a Jensen P10R. We also tried through my cab with 10" TTC's and it sounded great as well, but I LOVED that Jensen.

We also tried 11 distortion pedals (including OCD, Vintage Rat, Russian and US Big Muffs, Tube Screamer, bunch of Boss stuff - all the usual suspects!) and a boost. The Tramp LOVED them all - this amp is an incredible pedal platform and might even make you love your pedals a little bit more than you do now... Every guitar we tried was great too - Tele, Strat, a couple of Les Pauls, 3 PRSi including a hollowbody... what was also nice was that once you got a good tone dialed in, you could switch from bridge to neck on the guitar without having to change anything on the amp!!!! :shock: The design of this amp is REALLY right... ;)

It's no secret I'm a fan of big ass, loud amps. I wasn't sure if the Tramp was going to satisfy my appetite for BIG tone. Well, rest assured it did... in spades! It's not as loud as a lot of amps, but the tone's ALL there. It's as simple as simple can be, but still allows for tons of tone shaping, and it works EVERYWHERE and with EVERYTHING!!! It's perfect. 10 out of 10. And with the exception of removing a couple of the redundant features, I wouldn't change a thing about it. :D

I want one. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:26 pm 
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Looks like you had some fun there folks! I bummed I couldn't make it to this session, due to a previous commitment. :( The darker vibe in Tweed mode is because that's a characteristic of the Tweed Champ/Princeton amps, and we're trying to stay faithful to that type of amp sound. Purely personally, I way prefer the amp in 'tude mode. Everyone has different tastes, and I'm not a big pedal user either. It didn't fart out for me though - but this prototype has taken quite a lot of beating so far, and we've sometimes had things come loose inside, which is pretty much inevitable. That's what prototypes are for. :) Also bear in mind the amp is still not quite finished, although still very usable as you found. A little more tweaking perhaps, but I just can't get enough of the amp in 'tude mode! :D And yes, I totally agree about having an external speaker jack for this amp.

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Last edited by zaphod on Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Your killing me Brent!

Now I want one too.

I love the idea of the ext. speaker jack. Like a head with a built in speaker. The ability to run a 6L6 would make this feature even more desirable.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:15 pm 
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zaphod wrote:
Purely personally, I way prefer the amp in 'tude mode. Everyone has different tastes, and I'm not a big pedal user either. It didn't fart out for me though - but this prototype has taken quite a lot of beating so far, and we've sometimes had things come loose inside, which is pretty much inevitable. That's what prototypes are for. :) Also bear in mind the amp is still not quite finished, although still very usable as you found. A little more tweaking perhaps, but I just can't get enough of the amp in 'tude mode!


Don't get me wrong Phil, 'tude didn't suck, I just don't think anything is happening there that isn't already happening in tweed... it's not like with the Triwatt when you kick it in it goes into turbo boost!!!! We didn't find it tonally different enough to warrant keeping it in the amp... and for the turbo boost, it was much more easily accomplished with a pedal (you know I'm not a huge pedal guy either, but in this case they were speaking my language!!)... anyway, ultimately this is up to the Trinity board of directors ;) but the consensus in the room seemed to be that 'tude wasn't adding enough to the amp to warrant keeping it, not to mention the simplicity of only one channel on an amp of this type is VERY appealing.... and I doubt if the amp was broken in any way 'cause it sounded AWESOME!!! If it is broken, then I'll happily break all 25 of my amps!!!!! :shock: ;)

I hope there isn't any more tweaking!!!!!!!!!!!!! :? :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:18 pm 
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Dagan8 wrote:
Your killing me Brent!

Now I want one too.

I love the idea of the ext. speaker jack. Like a head with a built in speaker. The ability to run a 6L6 would make this feature even more desirable.


:lol: yup! :wink:

Yeah, exactly - like a head with a speaker... with the added bonus of being able to run it as an 8W practice amp at home and then up the ante to a 6L6 with an external cab for small gigs. Add a couple of stomp boxes and this is pretty much the holy grail in small amps IMO...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:15 pm 
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All these are very cool options and the design will be able to accommodate them all. What goes in the kit, in order to keep it simple, may vary.

As for the 'tude, I have heard the amp many ways now and at the chapel, the difference between the Tweed on 10 and 'tude on 7 was not evident. There may have been a little more complexity in tude mode, but gain was practically the same.

After 7, the tude had more raw gain. It remains to be determined if it is musical enough or not. I think with an inferior 12AX7 it might get nasty. Of course, the speaker plays a role here to.

My original idea was a switchable clean Tweed mode to a gained up mode with attitude. That's not to say you have to use the 'tude mode, if you dont want to!

We'll get some more ears on this next week and put this to bed.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:18 pm 
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coco wrote:
All these are very cool options and the design will be able to accommodate them all. What goes in the kit, in order to keep it simple, may vary.

As for the 'tude, I have heard the amp many ways now and at the chapel, the difference between the Tweed on 10 and 'tude on 7 was not evident. There may have been a little more complexity in tude mode, but gain was practically the same.

After 7, the tude had more raw gain. It remains to be determined if it is musical enough or not. I think with an inferior 12AX7 it might get nasty. Of course, the speaker plays a role here to.

My original idea was a switchable clean Tweed mode to a gained up mode with attitude. That's not to say you have to use the 'tude mode, if you dont want to!

We'll get some more ears on this next week and put this to bed.


That reminds me, I forgot to mention that we did most of the session with one of Stephen's old gem 12AX7's... I started to get concerned that my eventual Tramp wouldn't sound the same so we swapped in a brand spankin' new reissue Mullard (my current fave 12AX7 in just about everything!)... AWESOME! Tightened things up a bit and gave it a bit more size... Anyway, the good news for those without the budget for NOS oldies but goodies, current production tubes are just fine. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:54 am 
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True, very true. I liked it in this application as well! :D

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:14 pm 
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The main issue with Tweed vs 'tude mode in the amp is that the Tweed mode is somewhat over-gained for an 5F series Champ/Princetion, which it's meant to emulate. I had some concerns aboutthat, but we decided just to leave things as they were before and just get it tested, to see what feedback we got. So this has all been excellent feedback!
bgroup wrote:
The 'Tude tone was a little more "complex"....

It's that extra chime and complexity, plus extra *usable* gain that I love about the 'tude' mode. It's a real shame the amp didn't behave itself when operating in that mode at your place. :(
bgroup wrote:
and I doubt if the amp was broken in any way...

bgroup wrote:
... past 7 it just got out of control and farted out in the bottom end.

In a word that says there was something wrong in the amp. But, like I said this is all great feedback!
bgroup wrote:
... we swapped in a brand spankin' new reissue Mullard (my current fave 12AX7 in just about everything!)... AWESOME! Tightened things up a bit and gave it a bit more size...

They don't sound quite the same as real Mullard 12AX7ss, but I like them a lot. There's a real clear sweetness to their tone. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:50 pm 
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I'm not sure I'd say "past 7 it just got out of control and farted out in the bottom end." but it didn't sound as good as it might be able to.

A little more work.

I must say that did like the ability to get what the players wanted with one control.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:25 pm 
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I'm assuming the amp is cathode biased? If you use a 470R bias resistor you should be able to use just about any octal based tube without a bias switch.

Quote:

The OT apparently can handle a bunch of different tube types, so we discussed the possibility of having a preset bias switch that would allow swapping between 6V6, KT66, and 6L6!!! Awesome


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:04 pm 
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We're working on it. Currently have a 750 ohm in there to keep 6V6 under control at 400V B+ max.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:51 pm 
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bgroup wrote:
It's no secret I'm a fan of big ass, loud amps. I wasn't sure if the Tramp was going to satisfy my appetite for BIG tone. Well, rest assured it did... in spades! It's not as loud as a lot of amps, but the tone's ALL there.

Trinity has had a special output transformer designed for this amp and built by Heyboer. That OT is probably the biggest reason for how beefy this amp can sound.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:29 am 
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Just did a little final tweaking on the amp, mainly to get the 'tude mode a bit tighter. 'Tude mode has more sparkle, chime and drive than Tweed mode, which is exactly what we want. :D

While tweaking I usually test the amp with various different guitars, and it really struck me again just much how the tone and distortion levels of this amp are really dictated by the guitar. At the *same* gain and volume settings, you could get clean/edge of breakup tones with low power single-coils, to moderate blues/rock distortion with P90s or moderate output H/Bs, to raging rock/metal distortion with high output H/Bs.

The reason lies in the fact that at its heart, the Tramp is a real simple two-tube amp. Just two preamp stages and a power tube. They don't get much simpler than that*. Amps with more stages between the guitar jack and the power amp tend to smooth out the differences in guitar output level more. We've added some things like a Master Volume, tone controls and VVR, to help make the amp more versatile, but this is basically still a very raw and simple amp. Pure and simple.

* FYI there are in fact some 2-tube amps out there that are even simpler, such as the Vox AC4 and F*nder 5C1 Champ, featuring a single pentode preamp stage driving the power tube. These amps have a sweet vibe but are severely challenged in what they can do, and the amount of breakup they can give. So two tubes with a 2-stage preamp IMO is the simplest you can get while still having useful versatility.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Alright all you Trinity fans out there in Trinity land!! Clips...

I'm giving you the better part of everything that was recorded. So it's as if you were there... well, sort of... minus Mark and Rob's good looks... and of course Stephen's charming personality... and my... umm... and my... errr... OK, so I don't really have anything to offer like the other guys....

EXCEPT CLIPS!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

No studio trickery here - what you hear is how they went down via a single SM57 a couple of inches back from the grill (yup - steaks and burgers... and beer too!). Some are better than others. And don't be alarmed if you hear talking... the volume going up and down... the tone changing... clicks... pops... There's nothing wrong with your speakers! It's all my fault. I left the hard disk running while we were checking the Tramp out... in other words these are VERY informal clips but hopefully give some insight into the range of the amp... and have patience - sometimes the best variation on the tone is at the end of the clip!

The first set are the Fender clips. We had my US Strat and US Tele going, we were flipping pickups, moving knobs on the amp... so I have no idea at times what we had happening... sorry. When I get the amp back I'll document what we're doing more carefully!

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... nder_1.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... nder_2.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... nder_3.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... nder_4.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... nder_5.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... nder_6.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... nder_7.mp3

Second set are Gibson clips - I think primarily my Swamp Ash LP Studio, but I'm not sure, possibly an SG in there too... I was focused on the amp!! This was the era of pedal testing so there's a few here with pedals... that I quite like I might add!! One is my ProCo Vintage Rat, and the other is the el cheapo but unparalleled for intense distortion Digitech Grunge pedal!! A couple of other sound like a pedal too but I don't know which pedals - I tried them all!!

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... bson_1.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... bson_2.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... bson_3.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... bson_4.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... bson_5.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... _6_Rat.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... Grunge.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... bson_8.mp3
http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... bson_9.mp3

OK, enough randomness - these I actually documented... not my faves by any means, but at least we all know what was happening!!

PRS Hollowbody I, bridge pickup... gain 9, bass 5, treble 6.5, volume 9, vrm 8.5... skinny

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... bridge.mp3

Same as above with Fulltone OCD pedal

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... ge_OCD.mp3

Fender US Tele, bridge pickup... gain 10, bass 5, treble 6.5, volume 9, vrm 8... fat

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... bridge.mp3

Same as above with 80's Ibanez TS9 Tube Screamer pedal

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... reamer.mp3

PRS Mira, middle pickup... gain 6.5, bass 6, treble 7, volume 6.5, vrm 8.5... skinny

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... middle.mp3

Same as above with ProCo Vintage Rat pedal

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... ageRat.mp3

Fender 50th Anniversary US Strat, neck-middle pickup... gain 9.5, bass 0, treble 6.5, volume 7, vrm 7... no record of skinny or fat, defnitely not obese, perhaps just needs to lose 5 or 10 lbs.

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... Middle.mp3

Same as above with Boss BD-2 Blues Driver pedal

http://www.trinityamps.com/publictrinit ... Driver.mp3

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!!!!! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:24 pm 
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And btw, so we're clear, this is the version of the amp that DID NOT have the tweaked out 'tude mode that Phil describes above... I'll document that with clips as well, but I gots to get the amp back first!!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:15 pm 
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OK - NOW I get it! This is what I expected from the amp.

Hmmm...just what I needed. Another candidate for the next build project!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:08 pm 
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I forgot how good it sounded that day. Thanks again to Mark and of course Brent for the clippage.

Great work!

:arrow: As a reminder, I think these clips were almost exclusively Tweed mode. No 'tude . As Brent said earlier, 'we experimented with leaving it in Tweed mode'.

Next round will have the 'tude engaged. I think it's pretty well baked now with the last two tweaks and the recent gigs.

Also, this was with a 6V6 tube. I have since made the bias switchable between 6V6 and 6L6.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Mmm, mmm, mmm.

Everything from nasty to nice. I've been waiting for these clips. Now I don't know which amp I'll build next...how to decide?


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