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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:02 pm 
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Looks like it fits in there perfectly.

That stranded brown/white strand. Is that a 9V+ and ground? Couldn't you save that long ground wire and just attach a ground wire from the relay to some closer ground point?


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Very nice.

Maybe it's just a matter of all those "hot" components & leads being moved away from the pre-amp signal path & closer to the tube socket? Hey - if it works, one can't complain!

So when will this be available as an add-on mod? And at what cost? :)


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:28 pm 
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kurtlives wrote:
Looks like it fits in there perfectly.

That stranded brown/white strand. Is that a 9V+ and ground? Couldn't you save that long ground wire and just attach a ground wire from the relay to some closer ground point?



It does fit in there perfectly. I was really happy about that.

You could pass on the twised lead but the first version is always a bit of an experiment. I was hoping to not have to ground it at all, hence the little ground lead to the tag strip. That didnt work out so it got connected.

Also, I dont mind the extra twisted wires since it's not perfect DC, so some noise could be emitted. Twisting is like insurance.

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Emohawk wrote:
So when will this be available as an add-on mod? And at what cost? :)


Retrofits will need to drill some (4) #6 holes in the chassis? We'll be workig o a kit price soon.

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Ah cool, makes sense.

It really does seem to fit in there perfect. Any chance of some pics of it close up?


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Got any part #'s/specs for the transformer and relay?


I've got a couple of 12v dpdt relays lying around, left over from a car project , and might try my hand at using these. FWIW, I usually buy several extra of any component I need, just in case I mess it up and also for spares. This has saved me a lot of time, especially in the infancy of my amp building "career" by not having to wait for a replacement after destroying a part. Cliff 1/4" switching jacks had a high mortality rate in the beginning, so even now, if I am ordering them, I always order a few extras!

I pulled a few wallwarts apart and have found a few that might work. I need to dig through my old stuff boxes some more.....

This might be a stupid question, but what is the purpose of the diode across the coil contacts?

Oh, since I eliminated the "linked" input on the front panel, I installed a switch to perform the function.

I am considering adding a second relay in the amp, to be controlled by the second button of of a 2 button footswitch (with a TRS cable) for lead boost purposes......


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:30 pm 
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The purpose of the diode across is to prevent relay switching noise. Some have this built in.

The transformer spec we used was Pri:115/230V; 2.4VA; Sec: 12VCT; 0.200A. We used 6V tap in parallel for full current capacity.

We'll kit these up for others, but a deconstructed wall wart is a good idea.

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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 2:24 pm 
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coco wrote:
The purpose of the diode across is to prevent relay switching noise. Some have this built in.

The transformer spec we used was Pri:115/230V; 2.4VA; Sec: 12VCT; 0.200A. We used 6V tap in parallel for full current capacity.

We'll kit these up for others, but a deconstructed wall wart is a good idea.


Thanks Stephen!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:14 pm 
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OK, here's the update. Simple foot switch? ? Think again!!'

The basic unregulated PSU had too much ripple under load so I went to 5V regulated supply using a 7805 and 1000uf filtering on the input side, 10uf on the output side and we have Zero ripple! The reason for the quest for no ripple was the potential of the PSU to generate noise when the OD was on. Zero ripple is good!

Then I thought the relay contacts were 'leaking' so went to Omron G6A-234P-ST-US-DC5 40 ma DPDT, 5V. It turned out the contacts weren't leaking, the PCB material was. Now that's a rare one! So a new board was made with some vintage phenolic. Worked fine.

Installed it in TRIWATT #2, worked fine but bgroup noticed hum when the Dano was unplugged and OD on. Turns out, the wires from the relay to V2 pins 2 & 7 need to be twisted to make it perfectly quiet.

I think the journey is over!!

I'll install the same set up in TRIWATT #3 and report, but #2 is finally good to go & I'm finally happy with the OD footswitch control.

Y'all probably thought it would be a slam dunk!! It never is my friends!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:01 pm 
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Stephen, are you still using a two-board setup with the separate power supply and relay boards, or did you end up consolidating them on one board? Do you still have a snubber diode or RC or both?

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Then I thought the relay contacts were 'leaking' so went to Omron G6A-234P-ST-US-DC5 40 ma DPDT, 5V. It turned out the contacts weren't leaking, the PCB material was. Now that's a rare one!


I have had problems with perfboard after cleaning it with iso or water, (depending on which flux I was cleaning off of it). You can usually bake it out to solve some of these problems.
I think that material is a pressed fiberglass and has layers that can hold moisture, sort of like the vulcanized fiberboard in the days of ole.
I guess we haven't really progressed very much, have we? :lol:

Joe G

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:14 pm 
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The relay board & PSU are seperate still. Wanted the PSU far away from the tubes.

Leaky - No kidding!! I've even seen leaky GP03 board.
On #3 amp, I built the relay board on some fibreglass G10 as an experiment. No copper foil at all, just holes, and it was fine - thankfully.

For the PSU I ended up with a fully regulated supply. 1000uf on the input side; 10uf on the output side bridge rectifier. Solid as a rock.
I built it on copper clad perfboard and it seems to be OK.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:31 am 
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joeyvelour wrote:
Do you still have a snubber diode or RC or both?

We kept the snubber diode on the relay coil. While this diode is less important when you're not using a semiconductor device to drive the coil, it helps suppress switching spikes that can get into other parts of the amp.
coco wrote:
The reason for the quest for no ripple was the potential of the PSU to generate noise when the OD was on. Zero ripple is good!

FYI Stephen and I had been experimenting with different cap sizes and measuring the ripple voltage. We found with just the 1000uF smoothing cap we got 300mV ripple, which could be heard as a hum with the MV wound right up. With 2000uF, it went down to 150mV and wasn't really noticable anymore. The amp was quiet with 3000uF filtering and 100mV of ripple. But we don't go in for compromises around here. :D So now we have Zero ripple on the relay supply and Zero hum. :D
joeyvelour wrote:
It turned out the contacts weren't leaking, the PCB material was. Now that's a rare one!

That was the last thing any of us had expected. Personally, I'd not come across this before with fibreglass board material.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:12 pm 
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UPDATE:

Over the last week several people have played & tested the amps with the new & improved relay circuit - not one commented on any hum or popping (kurtlives, bgroup, AndrewatTrinity)

I'd say it's close to 'perfection'.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:35 pm 
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Now the real question for me and Malcolm is... any "personality" differences between #2 and #3? How about the prototype? I'm always curious about this since, in my experience, no two hand-wired amps play/respond exactly the same...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:35 pm 
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#2 and #3 are very close in tone, although #3 uses all JJ 12AX7s in the preamp, whereas you have the NS Mullards. The prototype sounds different, since it mainly uses carbon film resistors, and polyfilm caps that are neither Mallory nor Sozo. It also has the old Russian 6pi6 power tubes. So overall it has a little less finesse and a bit more aggression in its tone than the production amps, as well as slightly more hiss. The production amps seem to have slightly better definition to my ears than the prototype. The NS Mullard preamp tubes adds some extra sweet clarity to the tone of #2. I'm really starting to like those fake Mullards. :D Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance of playing both #2 and #3 side by side at the same time, to give a more definitive tone comparison.

HTH

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:46 pm 
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I can confirm that the prototype and #2 sound different after playing them side-by-side. It was quite a dramatic difference to my ears. The most notable quality difference was #2 was A LOT tighter. I preferred #2 in all cases, fwiw...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:51 pm 
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So that said, they all had their own personality.
I suspect that if the tube line ups on the production builds were the same, 2 & 3 would be very close.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:21 am 
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Great stuff... thanks for the feedback! I'm frequently surprised when I play someone else's amp that happens to be the same as one of mine. I guess that's the organic part of amps that we all love.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:57 am 
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Yeah, if we all sounded exactly the same, what would be the fun in that? :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:02 pm 
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coco wrote:
Installed it in TRIWATT #2, worked fine but bgroup noticed hum when the Dano was unplugged and OD on. Turns out, the wires from the relay to V2 pins 2 & 7 need to be twisted to make it perfectly quiet.

Just beginning my Triwatt research for some summer fun! And yes, I do see that this is an ancient thread! :D

In the comment above, you mention twisting those two wires leading to V2.


In the big picture attached to the "TRIWATT Docs" thread in the Resource page, those wires aren't twisted. Is that an oversight or is there further development since this post a few years back?
Finished Interior Link to Large Photo: http://www.trinityamps.com/ForumGallery ... _board.jpg

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