trinityamps.com

Hey folks,

Now that we're on the brink of the Triwatt launch, I thought some tube recommendations would be in order. It would be nice to have a baseline to work from since we have all the clips from Brent's place for reference.

Stephen & Phil, what are your recommendations? I know you've been using JJ 6V6's, but what about the pre-amp? Recommendations for KT-66's?

The initial development of the TRIWATT was done with JJ 12AX7s and 6V6s . We also used either a NOS JAN 12AT7 or an NOS RCA "black plate" 12AT7.

We've run an assortment of NOS 12AX7s in the amp, including Mullard and Brimar and 12AX7WA. The Tung Sol 12AX7s, gave some real sweet definition but were a little too bright for this amp with the JJ 6V6s at the high B+ voltages we were using. We did some more tests with some old Russian 6V6s (or 6Pi6s) and the tone sounded more balanced, with some very rich distortion. However, this is with a lower B+ as we have now dropped the voltage using an 18V 5W Zener which has been incorporated into the bias switch design / option.

So far we've run both Shuguang "Golden Dragon Retro" KT66s and Genalex "Gold Lion" reissue KT66s with good success. The KT66s are a little darker than the 6V6s, especially the Gold Lions so using them in conjunction with the Tung Sol 12AX7s would probably complement them very well.

This Friday, Larry is using 4 new JJ 12AX7 [ including the PI] and BRIMWAR/SOVTEK NOS 6V6. In our opinion, it sounds pretty sweet and Larry likes it too!

coco/zaphod

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Stephen
Web: www.trinityamps.com. Facebook: facebook.com/trinityamps. Twitter: @trinityamps

I found some BBE Effects (Silicon Transistor Fuzz & Treble Booster - Yes I am looking for some "Obscured by Clouds" Tones) online for a deal so I will probably go with the KT66 tubes from the start. The JJ 6V6 might be too bright and too dirty. I heard those type of effects like darker amps better.

Have you tried the amp with those style effects yet, and if so would Russian (Darker) or Chinese Tubes be a better choice?

Thanks:

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ROB

We've thrown a whole variety of pedals at the TRIWATT, including Larry's vintage silicon Fuzzface and my Germanium Rangemaster, plus many of the more modern FX pedals. As the preamp is pure Hiwatt, it takes the pedals beautifully, both with 6V6s or KT66s. There's a useful description of the pedals Larry is using for his gig on Friday, on www.trinityamps.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1515&start=8 For what he's doing, Larry's actually preferring the 6V6s over the KT66s, and he's running his guitar into the Bright input, and using a 12AX7 in the PI position. He also runs the amp with the Overdrive engaged most of the time. But that combination really works for him, and cuts through the mix nicely.

I was recently doing a little reading about Gilmour's rig, and it appears that he also uses a 12AX7 in the PI, which helps give the amp a more aggressive sound and earlier breakup for a Hiwatt. So I'm now of the opinion that DG's distortion tones rely a lot on the amp's own breakup, as well as the pedals. And after working a lot with the Triwatt, I can now really hear the signature Hiwatt tone coming through in a lot of his playing. I think that Larry's (slightly fluffed) Crazy Diamond clip, which is played with no FX at all, demonstrates very effectively how much of DG's tone comes from the Hiwatt itself.

So to go back to your question, if those particular FX do work best with a darker amp, then the Russian Gold Lion KT66s will be the way to go, but with a 12AX7 in the PI, Gilmour style . I think I would also love to use the Tung Sol 12AX7s with those Gold Lions. Anyway, I'm rambling now, so I'll shut up....

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Great tones come in small glass jars!

I do not mine the rambling. The more information the better.

I think I will try the 6V6/12AX7 tube combo with the Triwatt. The main thing I was worried about was the ability for the amp to take effects, and if using the 6V6 doesn't hinder that thats what I will start with. If I wanted a "clean" amp, I would have a Fender Twin.

If the amp seems to bright for some of the effects, I can run into the normal channel, versus the linked channel. Also I plan on using a Fane Speaker, which should darken the sound a little.

Thanks:

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ROB

FWIW, the last time I had the Triwatt in my possession we used a stock Boss Blues Driver for a while, and it was heavenly. Oh, and it was 6V6's, Fanes, Greenbacks, and then for the metal effect we plugged into V30's... bright, normal and link channels, OD in and out... all great...

I may have mentioned this in an earlier post, but I personally prefer the sound of more modern pedals/fx through the Triwatt as I found some of the more vintage offerings to impart a lo-mid thing I didn't like. But that's just a taste thing for sure, and could be out the window with KT66's. Bottom line is the Triwatt will handle pretty much anything you throw at it I think...

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Brent Bodrug
Producer-Engineer/Songwriter

www.slyfichapel.com

Stephen & I have probably been reading the same stuff about DG's rig!

Considering that the 12AX7 in the PI tends to make the amp a little more aggressive & it breaks up earlier, it's a little surprising that Gilmour likes that. From what I've read he likes his amp tone to be pristinely clean & colors it with a variety of effects. Granted, he may simply be hammering the front end fo the amp with a boost to get his overdrive, and having the 12AX7 in the PI will help.

Personally I try not to overdrive the PI too much because I'm not a big fan of how it impacts the tone. So, I'll probably go with the 12AT7 in the PI...but that's not to say I won't experiment with a 12AX7 too.

With all that said, the 12AX7 might be a better option with KT66's. So many combinations to try.

I've become a big fan of the reissue Tung-Sol 12AX7, but I can fully understand Stephen's point about it sounding a little too bright. It is sort of a blend of a Mullard and a Chinese 12AX7 tonally...has the Chinese brightness & gain factor with the smoothness & detail of the Mullard. In some amps that are naturally bright to begin with, I find it too bright. My 2204 build & my modified Valve Junior (very vintage Marshall - much like the Trinity 18w normal channel with a LOT more drive) are prime examples. I've switched to a reissue Mullard in V1 of the 2204 & in the VJ. Much smoother & warmer with more controlable overdrive when pushed hard.

If you want to brighten up an amp the TS is a good option. It has the additional bonus of providing wonderfully detailed clean tones too. If you want to darken an amp or you're looking for a more balanced tone, the reissue Mullards can do the trick. If you want bright & edgy, the Chinese tubes are the ticket - probably why a lot of people love them in older Marshalls. Not so much with post-plexi designs I would expect - those quite a lot brighter.

I'm still pondering tube selection for the Triwatt. I think I will try the Tung-Sol 6V6's that I have first, and experiment with the box of tubes I have kicking around in the pre-amp. I have a variety of 12AX7's to try - TS & Mullard reissues, Chinese, Sovtek, EH, and a couple of old Rubys that I think are re-branded Sovteks (but they might be EH's). I'll have to pick up a 12AT7 & I might order a pair of KT66's while I'm at it. Plenty of experimenting to do!

It definitely does - I heard it with my own ears!!

FWIW, I have the AX7 in my DR103 and it stays clean and pristine for days! Frankly, the DR103 is past the threshold of pain by the time it breaks up... so Mr. Gilmour could have that thing stinkin' loud before it'd break up - even with the AX7. I think the AX7 is a bigger deal in the lower wattage Triwatt because you don't have the same threshold of pain to keep you from cranking that baby up!!!

And BTW Emo, I broke down on the 2204 - awesome, but bright. I'll take any tube suggestions you have to tame the top end... and for those wondering, still LOVE my JCM900 every bit as much!!!

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Brent Bodrug
Producer-Engineer/Songwriter

www.slyfichapel.com

Yes, that's what I used to believe as well, but after the deep-end Hiwatt learning experience I've been going through recently, I'm now coming round to the view that this is a bit of an urban legend, which probably also goes back to the somewhat inaccurate view that Hiwatts have difficulty doing anything but clean tones. I now believe that DG is running his Hiwatts on the edge of distortion and using the pedals to provide color (as you said) plus some extra drive. Like Brent says, even with a 12AX7, your ears will be ringing by the time it distorts without some extra help. The distortion tones DG produces all sound a like Hiwatt distortion, rather than pedal distortion that's been amplified by a Hiwatt. The fact that he's using a 12AX7 in the PI is just one proof of that. Larrys' no-pedal Crazy Diamond clip, where he's using the Triwatt's Overdrive stage, is another.

I think it's probably a bit of both - extra drive *and* colour.

Trust me, it sounds real good with a 12AX7 in the PI, as you can hear in all your favourite Dave Gilmour/Pink Floyd tracks. Larry is also preferring the 12AX7 at the moment for his gigging work. Of course, you're really *supposed* to run a 12AT7 in that PI.

That's a lot of the fun of that amp!

That's an excellent description. I must remember that one.

I like the sound of that. Must try some of those "fake Mullards"

Please keep us all posted. We're all on a bit of a learning curve together here. I wonder of those old Russian Rubies are actually Soviet era 6Pi6s, like the pair that are in the amp at the moment. They have a black coating on the inside of the glass, rather than grey, and have black bases. Looking from the top they have a kind of rounded V-shaped thing on top of the mica spacer.

There's also a well-known simple mod for the 2JCM800 204/2203 which involves snipping a couple of caps to get the ice picks out of the tone.

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Great tones come in small glass jars!

I doubt they're that old, but you never know. For your interest, here's a couple pics of the Rubys. I think these came out of my Laney. They sound good in that amp but they are noisy - that's the only reason I changed them. They do have the v-shaped rounded cap you mentioned, but you can't really see them in these pics.



Believe me - I'm VERY aware of the mods to the 2204. I built that puppy from scratch & spent weeks tweaking the design. In some ways it has as much in common with a Plexi as a JCM800. There should be some pics & notes in the forum somewhere (see viewtopic.php?t=1073). Also, Stephen has posted pics in the "Heads" gallery..."KirbyJCM800" or something like that. He built the cab you see...

I've actually removed the bright cap on the master, removed the treble-peaking circuit on the input, and for a while I even had a switchable bypass on the bright cap on the second V2 grid (I've since returned that last one to stock). I have a bunch of other mods in there too.


The problem with the 2203/2204 is they're inherently bright until you REALLY wind the thing out. When you get the volume up that high the bright cap isn't having much impact, but by that time it'll kill small animals at about 300 paces. I really don't know why it's even there. There are actually 3 "treble peaking" tricks in that amp. It sounds killer at ear-bleed volume, but anemic at sane levels.

These are very simple mods (but you may have to remove the board for some of them). I'd recommend clipping the bright cap on the master volume for starters. That may take care of it for you, and it's simple to reverse. If you want to suck more brightness out of the thing, replace the 500pf/470k network from the lo input to the pre-amp volume with a jumper. And if that's not enough (it should be though), you can also remove another 500pf cap that's tied to pin 2 of V2. As I noted, I ended up putting that one back in because it puts back a hint of the top end "fizz" that is a big part of the JCM800 tone.

As for tubes, well as I mentioned in a previous post I'm not a fan of the brighter/gainier Chinese 12AX7's in the JCM800 - even though they're very popular in older Marshalls. Right now mine has a new "fake" Mullard in V1 & reissue Tung-Sols in V2 & V3. V1 is where most of your tone's basic character comes from (IMO).

And another trick to warm up your JCM800...KT77's. I have the JJ's in mine and it's a VERY different amp. The 77's are a little more round & open, and don't compress quite as hard as EL34's. The top end is a bit more relaxed too.

Now, with all these simple changes you still have a JCM800 that will blow your head clean off if you want it to, but is also more civilized & sounds much warmer at lower volumes. And there's an added bonus - you can get a pretty sweet clean tone through the low input, which really surprised me.

Hmmm...another one of my verbose responses, and we've gotten a tad off topic! We can have a chat about the JCM800 in another forum if you want Brent! Hell - I'll rap about gear all freakin day!

Dang - I had my electrodes crossed there. I was talking about 6V6s, and somehow got it mixed up with what you were saying about 12AX7s.

I've recently seen some Sovtek 7025s used in a Laney BTW and they were real nice and quiet.

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Great tones come in small glass jars!

I didn't notice it either...Got into a 2204 frenzy there & left the rest of my brain on standby...

Final off-topic post... Emo if you spent any time in my studio, you'd know that I ALWAYS wind amps out! I'm not a fan of running amps anything but dimed. So, that said, my observations were based on hearing the 2204 wide open...

In any case, thanks for all the tips... OK back to the Triwatt... rumour has it I'm finally going to hear this thing with KT66's soon!!

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Brent Bodrug
Producer-Engineer/Songwriter

www.slyfichapel.com

Listen to Martin Barre between Thick as a Brick & Warchild. I would think the amp he was using was a 50 Watt Marshall Bass Head (Model 1986), but he said he used Hiwatts with nothing but a Guitar & Cord.

Also has anybody seen Gilmourish.com

Gilmour's Gear thru the ages.

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ROB

In that case he would have had to use a 12Ax7 in the PI, and he would probably also have been suffering from perforated eardrums.

Yes, that's a great site!

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Great tones come in small glass jars!

I saw Jeff Pevar play locally last Friday Nite. He was playing with a local Blues Player, Jeff Pritchell, and his band. Pever was using a Fender Vibroluxe & Proluxe. I was not sure how he was running the both of them, but the other guitarist was only using a Fender Deluxe Reverb. I talked to the band's roadie before the show, and he said the amp was fine and no more volume that 22 watts was required to be heard.

I will have no issues with only using the 6V6 tubes.

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ROB

I had to say it 1st,

sorry jcny


jcny and I are loading our "Triwatt's" with blackface 6V6;s and mullard pre's.
Gonna be a great time

Yummy!!!