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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Looks like we've found a location for Trinity Jam '09!!! Thanks Brent :lol:

Brent, that space just screams "play in me". Vocals and acoustic guitars must just shimmer in there :shock:

Thanks for all the hard(?) work guys. It really helps give us a great prospective on the Triwatt. Now, how to convince the finance committee :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:05 pm 
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jharasym wrote:
Love to hear more of a Pete Townsend type sound.


Sure, we can try, but the problem with doing the "copycat" thing is that one person's "townshend" will be very different from another person's. One person may listen to a clip and think "dead on, perfect!" The same clip to another person might be "sounds nothing like the original", this amp sucks!

Case in point, when we dialed up the tone you hear in clip 11, it sounded AC/DC-ish in the room... so Rob played AC/DC... upon reflection, frankly the tone sounds nothing like the tone on that record, it's not even really that AC/DC-ish!! Of course this opens us up to criticism, and could lead someone to mistakenly think the Triwatt won't do "marshell-esque" (it does) and isn't capable of an AC/DC-type tone (it is). Rather unfortunate given we didn't even set out to cop that particular tone in the first place... if we had recorded something else with that tone, then it would have just been a cool tone...

FWIW, clip 15 was supposed to be reminiscent of "My Generation", or at the very least Townshend-ish! But the fact is we didn't reference the tune, or any Townshend disc, it just vaguely reminded us of the "spirit" of the song...

Anyway, I'm admittedly not a Who/Townshend aficionado, and frankly not even much of a classic rock fan - I appreciate the value and context of that music, but don't love listening to it. I prefer to look forward, than back. I love new music made with vintage tones. I never played in a cover band, and have devoted 100% of my time in music working on new, original music... I understand that for a lot of people, recreating the classics is enjoyable, and that's what you use these tools for, so I'll dig up my "Who Greatest Hits" and do my best to show you that the Triwatt can do that... however as a disclaimer, copying classics is neither my forte nor my interest...

At the end of the day, if you really want to know if it does Townshend, Gilmour, or anything else, there's no substitute (for those close to Toronto) for packing up your favourite Townshend axe, brushing up on your Pete chops, and hauling it over to Stephen's to try it for yourself... :wink: :)

And the very bottom line here - yeah, the Triwatt does all the Hiwatt stuff, but it's SO much more than a Hiwatt-clone... there's worlds more tone in there to discover that you won't find on any classic rock record you have in your collection...

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Last edited by bgroup on Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:07 pm 
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Emohawk wrote:
Well, I know what I'll be doing this evening. That's a very wide range of tones.

Brent, #21 is my favorite too after a quick spin through these - using my crappy earbuds. We'll see what the verdict is when I get this stuff pumping through my real gear later tonight.


Emo, sounded GREAT in my car last night on the way home!! 8)

More to come - just heard from another guitar player that will play for me. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:11 pm 
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joeyvelour wrote:
Looks like we've found a location for Trinity Jam '09!!! Thanks Brent :lol:

Brent, that space just screams "play in me". Vocals and acoustic guitars must just shimmer in there :shock:

Thanks for all the hard(?) work guys. It really helps give us a great prospective on the Triwatt. Now, how to convince the finance committee :roll:

Joe G


LOL! Sure Joe, I can host - that'd be fun. :) And it's not like anyone would have to bring anything!!! LOL! ;)

Oh yeah, even more so in real life - such an inspiring space - everyone that's been in so far has said that. EVERYTHING sounds great in there, and my digital reverbs aren't going to see much action anymore I think!

Our pleasure. :) We tried to show as much range as we could in the time that we had. As I said, I have the amp for a bit, so I'll try to make a more concentrated effort on showcasing what I think are some of it's special areas... Oh yeah, it was a really tough(?) day!!!!!!!! :P

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Copping the Townshend thing would be a trick regardless. He may be known for the live performances with Les Pauls, SG's & Hiwatt stacks but in truth that didn't come until later on. In the early High Numbers & Who days he was playing Ricks, sometimes Teles, sometimes Strats, and through a wide variety of amps. I suspect it was whatever gear he could get his hands on & subsequently destroy.

So really I don't know if there is a signature Pete tone. Keep in mind too that he used a Univox Superfuzz live in the 70's for those ridiculous lead tones.

With that said, when I get around to building a Triwatt I can guarantee you the first guitar I'll try is my cherry SG special with P90's... :D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:49 pm 
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Emohawk wrote:
With that said, when I get around to building a Triwatt I can guarantee you the first guitar I'll try is my cherry SG special with P90's... :D


You won't be disappointed!! My LP with P90's slayed all day yesterday... :) :D

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:45 pm 
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bgroup wrote:
Emohawk wrote:
With that said, when I get around to building a Triwatt I can guarantee you the first guitar I'll try is my cherry SG special with P90's... :D


You won't be disappointed!! My LP with P90's slayed all day yesterday... :) :D


I have no doubt, as my next post will bear out...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:12 pm 
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OK - I just spent a couple of hours spinning through the clips so here's my feedback.

I really like clean stuff using the TT's. The open top end really helps clean stuff come alive. On the other hand, I really don't like what that same element does to overdriven tones. It gives it a "tearing" quality that I just don't dig at all. I like pretty much all the clips with Greenbacks, regardless of the degree of dirt. Same with the Fanes - they really do have a unique character.

I see what Brent is talking about with the "toughness" of the amp. The amp has an "immediacy" to the tone, almost snappy. It gives the overdriven stuff an extra intensity that you don't get with most old-school tube amps. Even the seriously fuzzed-out stuff (specifically clip 18 ) still retains some definition. It doesn't turn completely into a garbled mess like I'd normally expect. Everything has a very NOW feel.

On the clean side there's a definite spank to it, regardless of how mellow you want to be. But at the same time it's not exactly compressed so you still have that open jangly thing going on. It's tight, but not claustrophobic. I bet this would be a fun jazz amp.

And speaking of the fuzzed out fun of clip 18, that sounds a lot like an Octavia or Superfuzz hitting the front of the amp. If the thing does that naturally, that's a pretty cool trick.

I was really impressed with how well defined the overdriven neck tones sound, especially clip 12. Again, there's that tightness/toughness happening.

Clip 7 may be the sweetest sounding bridge humbucker clip I've heard. Very nice.

I really like clip 11. Nice & boxy. Reminds me of Iommi's tone on Wicked World & Warning from the first Sabbath album, only thicker.

Clip 20 is all about 60's hard rock tone with a boost pushing it...but without a boost pushing it! Gotta love that.

Clip 21 is my favorite of the bunch. Just killer! Maybe instead of Greenbacks I'll invest in some Fanes. But I love both...dammit! Clip 22 is awfully nice too. I could kick back with that tone all day.

Good job guys! Not like I needed to be sold, but this didn't hurt!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:47 pm 
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Thanks emo,

I love 21 as well and live it was fantastic. This was a session you had to be at.

Clip 22 was done at bedroom, practice levels almost. You could talk over it. We wanted to show that you didn't really need a VRM on this amp. It's very cool.

The real cleans are very transparent and jangly. Case in point Clip 13. You can get pretty loud cleans, but not into ear bleeding country. Some where around half Master voume. I was looking for more but the versatility of the amp is immense. Now you've heard the range it has with No Pedals.

So, I'm looking forward to more clips to see what else they can do with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:54 pm 
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Emo, WOW! Thanks for the feedback and your insight... nice to have some input. :D

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the speakers - the Greens and Fanes are made for the Triwatt regardless of what you're putting into them. The TTA's are amazing clean, but yeah blowing up they're just a little too detailed or something in the top end, and the bottom just isn't as big as I'd like. In all fairness though, I think they still have a bit more breaking in to do...

The word we used yesterday was "articulate", but I like your words "immediate" and "now". :) And yes, even though it's not as modern sounding as a Mesa or Soldano or whatever, the detail is still there at high gain settings - it's incredible! Especially in an amp with such a vintage voice - I sort of expect it in a modern sounding high gain amp these days, but not in something that has "old school" appeal. :wink:

RE: the clips (esp clip 18!), no pedals! What you're hearing that sounds like a boost is how "overdrive" compresses the tone. And you're right, it sounds more like a front-end boost than a later gain stage... I used to try to get this sound by blowing up inputs with my DOD Grunge pedal!!!

Yeah, clip 7... man that PRS Mira is a really special guitar. I really wasn't a fan of PRS before I heard the Mira - it's a beauty, and sounds especially great into the Triwatt...

Agreed on 21... And on further reflection, I think a lot of my favourite tones on the Triwatt come with Treble/Presence really low. This seems to be a sweet spot on there for me... I don't know maybe the darker top toughens it up even more??!!

Glad you picked out 22 - that one was at bedroom volume!! 8) We could talk over that at a normal conversational level! It's so HUGE for the MV being so low... :lol:

Vintage Hiwatt cabs are getting harder to find, so I'd start with the Greens!!!! ;)

Thanks again Emo for your feedback. It makes doing the clips more fun when you know folks are actually listening and getting something out of them... :)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:42 am 
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Hey - no problem. I could do this all day. If I only could play as well as I listen... :)

It really is hard to get a feel for an amp from clips, regardless of how well they're done. Your gear & listening environment have a huge impact on the results. Clips can give you a reference point, but one has to take them with a grain of salt. Also, microphones hear things a little differently than our ears do...

The Trinity Deluxe is a good example. The clips sound nice, but when I built one & plugged my Strat into it the whole room came alive. I had the good fortune to play it in a room full of guitarist pals and it left all of them slack-jawed. I'm hoping for similar results with the Triwatt.

On the other hand, the 2204 I built sounds nothing like the clips I've heard. It sounds good, just not what you expect based on clips. Even the short clips I've done myself sound like a different amp.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:00 pm 
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If I could only play guitar AT ALL!!! :wink: My 3 chord romps get tired pretty quick... :oops: the cliche is true - all of us piano players really are frustrated guitar players!! LOL! :wink:

I totally agree - clips are only one part of the equation. And it's hard in a general recording sense to get the energy in the room to translate to the hard drive. As I said to Stephen yesterday, you have to put twice as much into the recorded medium to get half as much out... You just can't move the same quantity of air through a microphone diaphragm as you can in a room, hence why we often use more than one microphone on a source, and why sometimes the big bottles yield better results in the studio... And yeah, when was the last time any of us listened with our ear 3" from the cabinet grille!!! :lol:

The other thing is how the amp "feels" when you play through it. The Triwatt is really dynamic and responsive, and for a lot of people that's half the deal... and impossible to communicate through recorded clips...

I struggled with the Trinity Deluxe when Stephen first loaned it to me... I agree it sounded better in person, but I really struggled with clean headroom... until I plugged it into my cheesy little 1x12 with CL80 in it. That changed the whole ballgame for me! And then I used it on a session and it recorded brilliantly... I was thinking 18W after the Triwatt, but it might be the Deluxe... 8)

You won't be disappointed in the Triwatt - promise. :) It's AWESOME live in the room. That authoritative, immediate, "now" thing is amplified (sorry...ha ha) and really commands your attention, and it's such a big sound that it'll fill whatever room you play it in even at lower volumes... And before the final transformers arrived it could get a little painful when it got loud, but with the final transformers it smoothed all of that out - doesn't hurt at all, even when dimed! :D Your buddies will be impressed, there's no doubt in my mind about that... :wink:

My next curiosity with it is the KT66's!! Phil says they darken the tone a bit, which could be cool, since it's naturally fairly bright and forward...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Yeah - feel is the thing. You don't get that from recorded clips. As I noted, that was the big (and I mean BIG) difference with the Deluxe. It absolutely filled the room, even at lower volumes. It has amazing "atmosphere" if you get my meaning.

I found the same thing with speakers, by the way. It "puckered up" way too much with speakers with lower power handling. I put an Eminence Texas Heat (150w) in the one I built and man...it really opened up beautifully.

But, we digress...back to the Triwatt!!!

I was a little surprised with how jangly & open some of the clean clips sounded. I was expecting it to have a compressed vibe overall. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised really. Dave Gilmour has pretty sweet clean tone (even when not awash with FX). Now there's something to put in a clip...something Gilmourish. Anyone have a ratty old black Strat kicking around? :)

Stephen & Phil really timed this project well for me. I've had a Hiwatt clone on my build list for a while. I was actually pricing parts for a DR504 clone when the Triwatt thing got started.

I dunno - I seem to have developed a thing for vintage Brit voiced amps. I've got a Vox (probably a TC-15 - don't panic Coco!) & an Orange on the build list too. All in good time...assuming a bag of money falls on my head at some point!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Good stuff!!!
I like the grindy distortion obtained without the OD turned up!
Very nice indeed.
Stew


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:38 pm 
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You may have mentioned this already, if so forgive me for asking but if not please tell me more about the speakers used for the test. I believe it was said the TTs were new but what about the Greenbacks and Fanes, new or vintage? Any chance of trying a Reeves cabinet? Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:58 pm 
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The Tone Tubbys have been used in the studio for a while so they are not brand new. The Marshall & Fanes are vintage issue I believe. The v30 was in a Mesa 412. All well used & broken in.

I have listened & listened to the clips and find there are a few with a edge I didn't like. Now, I'm not a shredder and I appreciate a good grind so I'm still trying to understand why. There will be some more investigation!

Still have to say, they all sounded awesome live.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:56 pm 
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No matter what, I am getting kit #1... and I make a promise to ANYONE within driving distance of me in Kirkland Lake, when I get the amp done feel free to come and try it out.

The thing is, when a few of these get out in player's hands and others get to hear them "for real", then you can make up your mind.

For that matter, if anyone wants to demo a Deluxe, an 18 sIII or a TC15 just send me a pm.

And yes guys, I pay full price for everything! :) Just an excited, long time fan.

AJC


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:48 am 
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Stoo wrote:
Good stuff!!!
I like the grindy distortion obtained without the OD turned up!
Very nice indeed.
Stew


Agreed. The OD stage on the Triwatt is very cool, but there's just something about the bright or normal channel dimed that makes me feel the same way my Mom's cooking does!!! ;) :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:52 am 
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Emohawk wrote:
I was a little surprised with how jangly & open some of the clean clips sounded. I was expecting it to have a compressed vibe overall.
...

I dunno - I seem to have developed a thing for vintage Brit voiced amps. I've got a Vox (probably a TC-15 - don't panic Coco!)


Oh yeah, the cleans are awesome - VERY open but forward. It's cool because with the Triwatt the bright and normal channel are very dynamic... engage OD (even if you're not cranking it up for distortion) and you have compressed tone... so versatile... :)

Oh yeah Emohawk, build a TC-15!! I LOVE mine!! 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:04 am 
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ozzyatfrbrich wrote:
You may have mentioned this already, if so forgive me for asking but if not please tell me more about the speakers used for the test. I believe it was said the TTs were new but what about the Greenbacks and Fanes, new or vintage? Any chance of trying a Reeves cabinet? Thanks!


My TTA's are newish... having said that they've probably got about 30-40 hours of playtime on them, and 100+ hours of CD playtime (recorded myself playing guitar direct and then ran the tracks back out through an amp into the cab) when I haven't been at my studio. So, they've definitely started to break in, but I feel they've still got a little ways to go... TT's take a LONG time to break in as you probably all know...

My Greenbacks are in a Marshall 4x12 that I bought new 10+ years ago. This cab has seen countless hours of use in my studio at really high volumes, so without a doubt these speakers are thoroughly broken in.

My Hiwatt cab is a 70's Hylight era SE4123 4x12 cab - original Fanes. I think it's safe to say they're broken in and very vintage!!

No chance of trying a Reeves cabinet unless someone has one that they'd like to donate to the cause for testing - I won't be buying one! All of the gear that I've used for Triwatt testing and recording clips for all of Stephen's amps is gear from my own personal studio collection...

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